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johnny2k
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 313
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa, USA
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 Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:00 am Post subject: The Rapture Debate |
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The Rapture Debate - Part 1
By John Kubicek
While many of my closest friends and Brothers and Sisters in the Lord Jesus believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, there are many Christians in the World that do not subscribe to that belief. Some believe in no Rapture at all, while others believe in a Mid-Tribulation Rapture and others who believe in a post-Tribulation Rapture.
As a Christian who visits many forums, I have come across many debates among the posts from Christians with the varying forms of the Rapture belief. While reading some posts on Digg.com, I came across a very well written comment that I felt enormously overwhelmed to want to share on this forum, regarding the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, which I will quote here:
| Quote: |
Comment by KerouacCat:
Why would God leave His church here for the coming Wrath of God (the Tribulation) which will destroy 2/3 of all the people left on earth?
Answer: He's not going to. Remember, we are not given unto His wrath.
Nevertheless, many who claim to be Christians continue to scoff at the RAPTURE, including ALEX JONES, thus fulfilling prophecy where the scoffers say 'Where is the coming of the Lord?"
FYI Alex Jones: the rapture is God's idea--it isn't an 'escape hatch' for cowardly Christians to get "beamed up" because times are getting tough.
WHY DO SO MANY SCOFF AT THE RAPTURE? WHY DO SO MANY HAVE DIFFICULTY ACCEPTING IT? SCRIPTURE TELLS US THAT AT LEAST 4 PEOPLE IN THE BIBLE WERE RAPTURED and Jesus Himself left this earth by going up into the clouds!
Don't some of you know that when the Beast sets up his system, his first goal would be to eliminate ALL Christians! God is NOT going to give him that satisfaction and it has nothing to do with our goodness, but rather with God's plan and His mercy.
I'd love to fight the Luciferians right here and now, but as Jesus said, "If this was my kingdom, my followers would fight for me." But our kingdom is not here on earth--yet. (It will be during the Millenium reign of Christ.)
I believe that after the Rapture, scores of people who believed they were Christians--but were not--will then come to true belief in Christ. (These are the multitudes of martrys spoken of in Revelation who cry out 'How long oh Lord.') They will not believe the great deception that will be poured out after the church is removed and they will finally realize that the 'missing' were indeed raptured. They will refuse to take the 'mark of the Beast' and most will be murdered by the Beast's system which Bush and his Talmudic pal Michael Chertoff are setting up under Homeland Security.
Bush's 'work camps' will house those who are considered 'enemies of the state' or 'terrorists' (i.e., anyone who refuses to go along with the Beast).
That's why Bush has put through the Military Commission Act, PDD #51, Patriot Act, John Warner Defense act, etc. They will use these laws to LEGALLY round up those who refuse to submit to the Beast and his system.
(For those of you who really want to dig into the rapture, go to Chuck Missler's website and listen to his audio discussion of it. He's a scholar and a godly man; someone you can trust.)
Some will escape the Beast's system, as scripture confirms, by heading off deep into the mountains or into the wilderness. But [that] is NOT the time to accept Christ---NOW is the time to accept Christ!
Don't wait for the appearance of the Beast and later the Tribulation, to accept the Lord. Do it now.
(Comment appeared on this Digg.com page) |
More on this subject will be coming!
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johnny2k
Community Moderator
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 313
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: The Rapture Debate - An argument for Post-Trib Rapture |
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The Rapture Debate - Part 2
An argument for the Post-Tribulations Rapture
I recently received a message from a good friend and Brother in the Lord, J. Barndon, where he discusses his ideology concerning the Rapture from the post-tribulation perspective:
| Quote: | I would like to chat about the Rapture if you have the time. I won’t quote till the cows come home but I can reference my theories if you are interested.
I am a Post Tribulation guy despite being part of a worldwide non-denomination that is pretrib.
Previous extensive studies have shown that, as a social phenomenon, a Pretrib rapture is a very recent Western phenomenon. For 1800 years Christians believed they would see Christs return after the final trumpet has sounded and the tribulation was finished.
As far as I know the pretrib belief did get a grip in many non-western nations throughout the 20th Century until those Christians suffered massive pogroms etc. They then called the Pretrib rapture the most deadly hoax of all… leaving Christians unprepared for the slaughter they faced.
The millions of Christians now suffering in China, North Korea and Muslim nations do not believe they will be whisked away to be the spared suffering of the tribulation.
They believe the definition of Christian is Christlike and Christ was the one to set the example for us. He suffered.
I think people definitely confuse the tribulation as God’s wrath (on the ungodly) with the contiguity of the devils wrath (on Christians). Truly Christians will NOT be subject to God’s wrath but the Bible clearly says that Satan will be given victory over the Saints for a short period but then Christ will return and butcher the enemies of God.
Try telling Sudanese Christians we will be spared tribulation or the estimated 200,000,000 believers that where grievously martyred last century. There are many famous Christian men and woman in History that called a pretrib rapture one of the most deadly false doctrines around.
As an example of the complacency a pretrib belief invariably generates, I tried to start an email club at a Church to write on behalf of and to persecuted Christians around the world. No one in the Church of 500 that I spoke too where aware of any persecution of believers (except one that “heard about China”).
The Pastor refused to let me post a notice on the backboard detailing the letter writing for Voice of the Martyrs because it was not ”positive” in nature. Many people refused to talk about persecution because they believed that all “true” Christians would fly away before any trouble started. In these last days false doctrines will “fool even the elites” during the falling away of the Church and it seems I have witnessed a part of it.
God is the same Yesterday Today and forever and his modus operandi does not vary. The Bible speaks of thousands of instances of believers overcoming massive tribulation. It never speaks of massive tribulation avoidance (“he who stands firm to the end will saved” etc).
The ramifications of a pretrib rapture are that there is not just a secret second coming of Jesus Christ but a third (visible) coming as well (pre-tribulation and then post-tribulation for two different groups of people). |
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